“I came to start a fire on the earth, and what more is there for me to wish if it has already been lighted?”
We Should be Proud of our Apostates—Ours Are the Best.

If Hymenaeus and Alexander go bad on you, to be sure, it is a downer, but it does not destroy faith and a good conscience.

I think he means that with Jehovah’s Witnesses there is a combination of pure teachings that are found no where else. Some of them are individually, but the combination is not. They involve such things as the Name, the kingdom, no immortality of the soul,  no Trinity, the reason for suffering, the preaching work, the need to keep watchful, transformed personalities, and so forth. The Christian ministry is a treasure, however it is a treasure carried in “earthen vessels”—that is, people, who are not unflawed. “However, we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the power beyond what is normal may be God’s and not that out of ourselves,” Paul says at 2 Corinthians 4:7. Context reveals that he is speaking of the ministry, which he regards as a “treasure.”

Although a certain malcontent fights so much and so bitterly with the bus driver that I can’t imagine why he doesn’t just leave—it would make the driver happier, the bus company happier, the passengers happier, and one would think, him happier—yet he does not do it, probably for the above reasons. (except for the ministry, and the nearness of the end, which he doesn’t seem to think is so)

People are a collection of their experiences, both those that have happened to them, and those they have manufactured. I have called him a loon. Maybe he is not, but he so closely resembles one that I cannot tell the difference. My bad.

As much as he carries on about worshipping the GB, he cannot seem able to understand that it is factors in the first paragraph that form a Witness’s faith, and following the direction of the GB is no more than not fighting with the traffic cop or the coach or the mentor. 

Let us humor him for a moment. Let us grant his dream come true, that malfeasance will someday be uncovered ....gasp!’....high up in the ranks. So? It would hardly affect one’s faith. They are men—everyone knows that. There have been many times in the past when the earthly organization was shaken practically into rubble—in America during WWI, in Axis countries during WWII, in Russia now—and as soon as the heat is off, God’s people rebuild like ants, because their faith was never in human arrangements—those just exist to facilitate and enhance spiritual things—their faith was in the spiritual things themselves.

Many times in the past brothers in responsible positions have proven unfaithful, sometimes even duplicitous, hiding who they are, and when discovered, have been removed and replaced. So says 1 Timothy 5:24: “The sins of some men are publicly manifest, leading directly to judgment, but as for other men [their sins] also become manifest later.” Sometimes it is now. Sometimes it is “later.” Still, I would have to see some evidence before buying in. The fact that opposers “accuse them day and night before our God” (Revelation 12:10) does not count, for that has never not been the case.

It happens. Even GB members have been removed—sometimes with fanfare and sometimes not. Faith itself continues. It was never in human arrangements. It was in spiritual things. Enemies of the faith make the same mistake here that they do in Russia. Failing to grasp spiritual things, they imagine that if the shut down the earthly coordinating organization, the faith will collapse. Instead, it is like stomping on the anthill. The ants run for cover, but almost immediately they commence rebuilding. Their faith was never in the anthill—that was just their to magnify their ant-life.

The Bible reading last week in 1 Timothy 1:18 encourages ones (Timothy) to hold “faith and a good conscience, which some have thrust aside, resulting in the shipwreck of their faith.  Hymenaeus and Alexander are among these, and I have handed them over to Satan so that they may be taught by discipline not to blaspheme.” As long as you hold faith and a good conscience, you are fine—and the faith is with regard to God and his Son, as accurately represented by the factors of the opening paragraph

If Hymenaeus and Alexander go bad on you, to be sure, it is a downer, but it does not destroy faith and a good conscience. 


Likely they will say of these courtroom battles, as they did of Russia banning the entire organization within its borders, that it is an area of “concern” but not “worry.” They don’t get overly attached to things, even things of their own construction. They put it all on the line routinely as they do their best to advance kingdom interests, not cowering before their enemies. They plow where they plow as they apply their view of the Bible, unconcerned, sometimes unaware, of the quicksand that may get them into, confident that, should that happen, God will somehow get them out of it.

They do not deliberately court opposition, but they do expect it. The king makes a law and Daniel is thrown into the lion’s den. He makes another law and his friends are thrown into the furnace. Another king makes another law and the entire nation of Jews faces extermination until Esther the queen opens his eyes to the murderous scheme he has been maneuvered into. It happens to their spiritual descendants to this day. The modern Witness organization expects no less. They are “insular,” separate from the world, and the latter finds no end of reasons to oppose them for it.

From “TrueTom vs the Apostates!”

Defending Jehovah’s Witnesses with style from attacks... in Russia, with the book ‘I Don’t Know Why We Persecute Jehovah’s Witnesses—Searching for the Why’ (free).... and in the West, with the book, 'In the Last of the Last Days: Faith in the Age of Dysfunction'



Well said.

I always find it interesting that those who at one time, but no longer associate with the organization are so eager to brand all current members as brainwashed, naive people. It’s strange. They present the organization as a captive structure that controls its members lives,,, even they’re money. Oh well,,, to each their own. And I mean that respectfully. As you mentioned, each persons perceptive structures are shaped by their unique experiences. I hear about it all the time, psych and social development are my wife’s field of study. She is a real smarty pants. She must be, she married me.

In my opinion, active members recognize both the utility of the organization and its deficiencies at the same time. Most things in life are that way after all. They view it as a tool, not as a god (hopefully). The entire narrative of the scriptures highlights that whatever system of worship has been utilized in the past has had deficiencies, but at the same time has played a role in the out working of Gods purpose. These systems and their adherents have never been perfect. It’s a progression. We are trying to understand/comprehend a metaphysical reality that in many way is beyond our understanding. We don’t even know the fringes of his ways. We see a hazy image in a metal mirror. Sacred secret is revealed gradually, the biblical narrative in itself is an example of this. Respectfully, I find it hard to understand how someone can study the narrative of the scriptures and miss that part of the message. But that’s just me. I’m not the brightest lamp hidden under the measuring basket. (Pause for laughter).

In my view, most members strive to take Jude’s direction to heart. They strive to build up their own faith, avail themselves of gods spirit and work to keep themselves in Gods love. They try to apply the law of the Christ in all aspects of their lives. Sometimes they do well, sometimes they don’t. No big surprise there. They don’t feel that they are any better than anyone’s else (hopefully they don’t feel that way), but they do try to live by bible standards, sometimes successfully, sometimes not. Its a personal commitment. It’s a balanced way of life that brings them much joy. One they feel leads to a high quality of life. More power to them. Their faith is hopefully not in men. If it is, then they may be stumbled by the imperfections of others,,, maybe not,, who knows. People are mysterious.

I’m going to go watch Seinfeld now. For alas, I too am just a man. Flesh and blood and by no means faultless. (Hold for applause).

Peace out.

Tom Harley

I think we are pretty much on the same page in most things, maybe all.

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